I’ve decided to take this one step at a time with my response to this comment. I’m not going to lie when I first read it, I was infuriated by it. I wasn’t even going to publish it as a comment on my blog, then I thought, that would just make me look ignorant, so I calmed down for a day or so and here’s what I did.
I sent it so as many diverse people as I could think of, asking for their opinions. From the UBER religious, to the moderate, to the non believer. From gay to straight, male to female, black, white, Hispanic, "mutt" if you will…to see what their initial reaction to it was. Specifically I told people humor was ok, but ignorance was out of the question. Honestly I got a lot of "I will not dignify this nonsense with a response." Which is funny to me cause I’m always all about saying something…but I digress.
I also wasn’t sure how I was going to keep my thoughts straight when attempting to reply since when you’re upset, you tend to go in several directions and not keep your thoughts straight. So I’m going for more of an editorial style. From here on out everything Josh said will be in italics, everything I'm responding will be in bold...hopefully it'll all be clear.
Here goes nothing:
Actually, Dawn, if people kept their mouths shut and actually DID keep it in their bedrooms, you wouldn't hear speeches like this. Seriously? You want to talk about people keeping it in their bedrooms? Just as many hetero people are guilty of PDA as homosexuals. I've never seen two gay people having sex in public and trust me I've been to a LOT of gay bars, I'm sure people have, but I'm not one of them. I have on numerous occasions seen heterosexual couples having sex in public from every where from Cubs game to a night club. Not to mention the oversexed TV, billboards, magazines, etc.....really...you want to talk about keeping it in the bedroom? Don't you get it that that is what the whole speech was about? Homosexuals shoving their agenda and what they do in their bedrooms down OUR throats? Do you see heterosexual parades? Agenda (def): A list or program of things to be done or considered. Is consideration really such a bad thing? I wish more people were a little considerate. Those parades you speak of, are to promote tolerance and equality, YES there is some flamboyance and promiscuous, I don't fully agree with all if the blatentness of it, but then again ... there are extremes with everything! ... Jewish people don't protest the Christmas parade, I'm not going to burn down the neighbors’ house for his excessive Christmas decorations or sue the store for playing Christmas music. I don't knock the Polish parade, or start comparing Mexicans to Islam when its Cinco de Mayo...it's all the same difference. People dressed trashy, walking down the street, holding hands, making out, etc? Are you talking about Taste of Chicago or Boy's town here? Really it describes both. Hell, that sentance describes the high school down the street, or the mall! Or how bout the "gay games", modeled after the Olympics? Ever looked into that? It's disgusting! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, personally I think pierced lips or facial hair is disgusting, but I'm not going to make government policy against it. Very distasteful (again in the eye of), orgies open public sexual behavior, etc. WHERE?! Did I miss it!!! I didn't see a single orgie! We're you there to see it happen, or just assuming a stereotype? It's like someone took the Olympics, as wonderful and amazing as it is, and turned it into this horrible disgusting thing! It's like they turned a Ruth's Chris filet mignon into a McDonald's cheeseburger Why not just compete in the regular Olympics?! Do they have a "no homosexuals" rule? Or was it the "no men in speedos making out on the track field" rule that did it. Hmm, yeah, that's probably what it was. I'm very sympathetic to that. I can never wait to get back into my bedroom either. Just gotta show the world how much I love being a hetero! This is actually my favorite line of this response to me. I mean REALLY have you seen a gay man run? Do we honestly want to see the humiliation of a lesbian beating the pants off the Russians in the javelin throw? And isn't bob sledding just kinda gay anyway? OF COURSE they don't have a "no homosexuals rule", I'm sure there ARE gay people in the Olympics, you just don't hear about it cause they keep it to themselves. Don't ask don't tell .. blah blah blah. They do have a no athletic ability rule of sorts you do have to qualify. That's like saying get rid the Special Olympics too cause they don't have a 'no cripple' rule. Do you know how many 'events' are modeled after the Olympics? I just competed in the 'beer Olympics' last year, and the 'bar Olympics' is one of my favorite Fridays competitions. Honestly.....it's just a word, meaning international multi-sport subdivided into summer and winter sporting events. And if you want to look at what's disgracing it, much like the MLB, it full of steroid and performance inhancer users , the athletes IN the Olympics are hurting the Olympics not the gay games.
The point is, nobody cares, or wants to hear what these people do in their bedroom, just like they don't want to hear what I do in mine! You are correct, but you do and get to talk/post about who YOU love and hold her hand in public you even posted you two kissing on the internet. Why isn't that considered inappropriate or disgusting? If you love someone you should be able to freely express it. APPROPRIATELY of course! If you don't want to see it, stop looking it up on 'Flicker'. And for anyone to say that it IS a healthy lifestyle, is obviously living under a rock. What lifestyle do you think is spreading and has spread aids faster than any other in this country?? HOLY CRAP!! Josh, you really need to get out from underneath that 1980 religious rock your under. This is actually the most uneducated mis-informed sentence I've ever seen! I will quote a friend here he wrote me in response to this: "There is a difference between sexuality and lifestyle. Sexuality is who you prefer to see naked. Lifestyle is the company you keep, music you listen to, clothes you wear, food you eat, etc. There is a difference between not liking something and thinking it is wrong. It’s okay not to like something. I don’t like watermelon jolly ranchers and country western music, but I don’t dare say something is wrong (which is the same as saying “I don’t agree with it”) I find it hard to believe that people intelligent enough to compose an email message on a computer are still ignorant enough to think they have the world figured out and can declare for all humanity what is wrong and right. Who gave them this right? A fairy tale god? A false sense of infallibility? Or are they just so smart they unlocked the mysteries of the universe before anybody else managed to?" - Jeff P. I agree with Jeff. You don't have to AGREE with homosexuality, but to say it as a whole is unhealthy? That's just ignorant and one sided.
It's so unfair of you to throw someone who disagrees with something into a "hate group" of people who "gay bash". They are SOO different. I completely agree. Bash by def: to criticize another harshly accusatorially and threateningly. That speech was criticizing HARSHLY and ACCUSATORIALLY of the gay community. And to make a policy against gays is THREANING so by definition that is bashing. Ok, another quote: It is irreprehensible for her to make a speech about the "Dangers of Gays" and to try to push public POLICY against them!!!! (Remember Hitler and the Jews???) - Erich R. To tell someone they are wrong because they don't believe in what you do, or try and make public policy about is not a positive thing, for ANYONE gay or straight. I have my own opinions and reasons why I don't agree with it and why I believe it IS a lifestyle and a choice. But that is something we can discuss if you like. But I just had to stick up and speak up for the OTHER side of this argument. Aren't we excited that we live in a country where we can have opinions? But let’s remember opinions are NOT based on any kind of scientific fact. I don't think this is a very fair video, and it's as one-sided and offensive (it was a recording, of what she said, that's not really one sided, it more of her straight out opinon) to us non-gay bashers as it is to the gays who MADE the video! If you ARE gay, you better get out there and do your research and find out what lifestyle you're getting into! It's scary, and it's 10X as dangerous as a heterosexual lifestyle! Aids is growing faster than ever before! Here's where I HAVE done research. Of the 40 million people on Earth with AIDS most cases were contracted through heterosexual sex on the African Continent. Most of the new AIDS cases in the US are heterosexual women of color, most prostitutes and IV drug users. Now, I do not choose to live my life in a promiscuous way, but it doesn't mean that I'm one to judge someone who does. I'm also a recovering drug addict and know I put myself into danger A LOT when I choose to do them, is anyone telling me I'm worse than a terrorist? Hetero and Homo has nothing to do with the spread of AIDS. It's not possible for AIDS to spread faster because two women went to bed, or because a man ejaculated into another man. That's just stupidity! In the gay community sure it might be more possible to contract something, lets face it, their having more sex. Another quote, just cause I liked it: "Having sexual contact with a carrier (same sex or not) of the HIV virus is what gives you AIDS. It is true that many homosexuals are promiscuous, but that is an aspect of the lifestyle they lead, not their sexual orientation. If there was a minority community of heterosexuals that lived a similar lifestyle, I guarantee AIDS would spread just as quickly. It’s astonishing that people in 2008 actually think a virus can jump farther off a penis that it can a vagina." Jeff P. Honestly, that's probably why every gay person I know are such happy people, they're getting some more than the rest of us :) But I also know plenty of gay men and women that don't sleep around that choose to be in loving committed relationships with their partners and are hard working contributors to society. My little sister Becky (who I LOVE) works with disabled children and the deaf, she has the biggest heart of anyone I know, she also sports a mohawk and is a lesbian. My brother Rich (whom I LOVE as well), works for a charitable group helping to fund individuals and organization that will carry out projects and programs which better humanity, he went to Desert Strom with the Air Force, he's also a out and proud gay man. If that is a 'lifestyle' is something that we should shy away from, I'm afraid to find out where our society is going.
Don't go criticizing what I'm saying until you go out there and do your own research, because I have. For instance, google "why aids is spreading" or something along those lines. You'll find a few facts in almost every article. "aids is most common among gays and spreads fastest throughout the homosexual community" "drug use helps with the spread" and "unprotected sex helps spread it." But first and most critical, they always stress the homosexual lifestyle. I want you to know by FAR I am not trying to be critical but informative. You can find anything you want to support your opinion on the internet. I can find a site that will support a claim that molesting children is ok, or raping women, or even bulimia. It doesn't mean it's an informative educated or right for that matter. I understand your religious standings as well....remember we once went to the same church. But I also left that church when they wanted me to denounce my family because of who they were instead of embracing and loving them for who they were. If Christianity is supposed to be tolerant and loving, it shouldn't be so critical and guilt driven. I decided to live my life with faith. I do, say, and live my life making decisions and doing things that I won't regret. If I do hurt someone or myself, I forgive or ask for forgiveness and move on, but I don't regret...I LEARN. I believe in a higher power, but I believe it lives in my heart not in a book that has been interpreted a million times over the years. I don't believe in taking only certain 'excerpts' from a book and applying it and not living by others. Golden Rule really....do onto others as you would have them do onto you. Would you want someone to make a video that you’re terrorist and recruiting children because you’re a vegetarian? I highly doubt it. SO to the makers and the posters of that video...
I'M LISTENING TOO! (us individual lovers). Believe it or not, you can love a person even if you disagree with their lifestyle! At least some of us can.
In conclusion, I really just want to express that opinions are JUST THAT, opinions. I'm not right or wrong, neither are you. I had a lot of people, gay straight married religious (even a priest.) tell me that you sounded fearful of the gay community, I don't want to make the assumption you are based on one post. I also don't want to include the intolerance of the people who told me to tell you to go to hell....it's not right and it's just as pig headed of an argument as that video was making. I want you to understand and respect my opinion as much as I understand as respect yours. I don't like all gay people, nor do I like all straight people. But I also don't like all Jews, or Christians. Or black, whites, or Hispanics... or all men or all women....I like the people I meet for the people they are.
Words like this politicians just spread hatred and intolerance of people. Saying 'GAYS' as a group did this is like saying all black men are rap artists or gang bangers, or all Jews are rich and cheap....stereotyping is bashing. Our forefathers came to this country to get away from religion and politics. Please keep your religious beliefs out of my politics, think of what's productive for the country, not looking at what's wrong and finding a scapegoat. I could go on and on about that, but I'd be here all night.
I want you to know, it was about 50/50 with the people I showed the post to. Some of them embraced the lifestyle, some are very against it, but all of them agree in tolerance of people. I’m never going to agree with everything another person is saying…EVER, nor am I going to agree with how everyone lives their lives. I will agree to disagree, but I won’t agree to spread hated of any group. That's all I'm trying to promote...with a little humor and sarcasm of course.
6 Say what you will...:
Now take this another step further...
What is the most dangerous lifestyle in America (or the world)? It is a religious lifestyle. Let's finally stop pretending that it is moral to be religious. Religion is a belief and ethic system based on faith. Faith in what? Things we can't see, hear or touch? This is the main reason people give for denouncing homosexuality... because god's word is against it. I'm going to say it once, and you can make your own HONEST and OBJECTIVE research & conclusion... GOD'S WORD DOES NOT EXIST... ONLY MAN'S WORD... ALL ANCIENT RELIGIOUS TEXTS ARE COPIES OF COPIES OF COPIES OF ORIGINALS THAT WERE WRITTEN BY MEN WITH THE PURPOSE OF ADVANCING THEIR OWN IDEAS...
Seriously people, it's time to wake up in the 21st century. There is no god watching over us. If I told you I had a 26" cock you would demand proof, would you not? What if I told you there was a super dude with holes in his hands and his feet, and he is going to send all the fags to hell? Wouldn't you demand proof for that? Hell, my 26" cock is more believable than Christianity or Islam or any other belief system built on faith.
I was one of the unlucky ones to read your friends entire unflattering response to your blog so you know some of my thoughts already. I just want to point out again for the general public that the purpose of "MYspace" and blogging is to share your personal thoughts and feelings, likes, dislikes, etc. If you want to share something that pisses you off it is your right to do so on YOUR page.
Now, as your sister I want to say I am impressed with your restraint and delay in responding. I think I was one of the angry ones that ended her reply to you with the words "go to hell", but I don't "approve" of others attacking the people I love. Frankly it pisses me off.
FYI, I have replied to my sister to let her know my blog is PUBLIC so I'm ok with the comments.
1. "keeping it in the bedroom": agreed, there's sex everywhere, and it's a shame, I hate it, and it slowly poisons our minds without us realizing it. But like you said, it's all about them trying to get the general public to accept the gay lifestyle (call it what you want, but you know what I meant). They just do it in the most distasteful way possible. And I believe you agreed with that. This is exactly what makes so many people disgusted with the topic.
2. I don't think Christmas music, and Irish Parades are a very fair comparison to a sex-based parade. Let's not hide the truth under the icing. It's a parade celebrating the preference for the same sex. It's SO different. I wouldn't approve a parade with people strutting around just to show of their preference for the opposite sex either! It's ridiculous and unnecessary. Agreed?
3. Gay Games. I read an article on it including pics and video clips. This was a bad argument on my part, because I'm sure things like that prob happen at any olympics too. It's just never been brought to my attention like this was. But there's still no reason for the "gay games". And you using the Special Olympics as an example is about the worst example I've ever heard. Seriously? Comparing gay people to the handicapped? You said it, not me. I think there's a good reason the handicapped doesn't participate in the regular Olympics. I can't say the same for gay people. They don't have a handicap. And for the record, I don't even watch sports, so I'm not sticking up for any of them.
4. Flickr: I didn't look it up, thanks. It came up under "recent public photos". It was just a joke I was making. You gonna tell me that wasn't funny? Most of the people who read my blog found it funny, which is why I posted it. End of story.
5. The things you've told me about your friends make them all sound like jerks. Therefore, why would I care what they have to say? Also, 90% of what they've said has been their opinions! So what do they have to do with this? I don't need their negative comments! I don't think it was necessary for you to post them either. What are we, in kindergarten?
6. And since Jeff wants to be so critical in his remarks, calling me ignorant for declaring that something is wrong, where do you draw the line? Who gives you the right to draw lines and where? Don't we ALL have lines? Won't every person you stop and talk to have different answers for what they think is right and wrong? So what makes me so ignorant to declare mine! Dawn declared her by posting that blog, so what makes me so ignorant to comment on it? Dawn, don't you agree with that? Wait, you said you agree with Jeff on that. How is that not a double standard?
7. being accepting: Yes, Dawn, you can love someone as an individual and as a fellow human being, while disagreeing with a choice they make. Maybe you should try it sometime, it might help you sleep better at night! See, this is the problem. You're thinking that I look at a gay person as gay and that's it! I look at it as there is 1 thing they do that I don't agree with. So what?! Are you gonna tell me you don't have friends who do things you don't agree with?
8. Why would someone want to be gay? How am I supposed to answer that? Why do women stay in abusive relationships? Why do they go back to men like that after they get out of them? Why are some people straight, but turn gay? Why are people gay then turn straight? I don't know, but it's not a mystery. It's just complicated.
9. Dawn, here's your 1980 stat. I don't know where you're getting your stats, but this is as credible as it gets: Man to man sex
Here are some more credible stats: The Center for Disease Control and Prevention website
So don't tell me homosexual sex is just as safe. Apology please??
10. Christianity- Critical & Guilt-driven? That all depends on the crowd you are with, doesn't it. Who's teaching you. That is a teaching style. Some pastors teach condemnation and guilt. Some teach forgiveness and love. I believe, and I believe the bible (Jesus) taught this way too: forgiveness and love. That doesn't mean accept everything a person chooses to do just to avoid hurting their feelings, or to be politically correct. And if that's the type of person you choose to be, that's your problem, but I wouldn't call that politically correct, I'd call that spineless. But Dawn, you are right to trust in the faith you have in your heart, because that's where it starts. People will disappoint you every time, but our perfect example was Jesus.
11. So you're going to compare me being a vegetarian to being gay? Do you know what it is about the spread of homosexuality that bothers people? Not because "they're afraid of homosexuals" which is the lamest thing I've ever heard, it's because they're trying to force the idea of accepting and teaching homosexuality into government and into schools. To a parent who doesn't agree with homosexual sex and marriage, it doesn't get much scarier when you find out teachers are teaching your kids that stuff! To them, that is scarier than terrorism (according to this lady anyway). But this comes down to opinion, and religious belief! And obviously, that being said, a "MARRIAGE" is a ceremony between a man, woman and God. Nowadays, obviously, the God part is just ritual with people who don't care to have God be a part of their marriage.
11. Afraid of the gay community!! What exactly is there to be afraid of? Maybe YOU'RE afraid of what gay people will do to YOU if you don't conform! Would I be posting this if I was "afraid"? You shouldn't have gone there, Dawn, that's just unfair personal bashing. These people don't even know me, and really, you don't either.
12. Saying "gays" is like calling black people rappers?? If a person is a homosexual, doesn't that mean they're gay? If a person is black, I don't think it means they're a rapper. That was a bad comparison. I don't see anything offensive about "gays". As I wouldn't see anything offensive about "straights".
13. "Please keep your religious beliefs out of my politics"- This country was founded on biblical principals. Are you saying you want me to quit commenting on your PC posts so you can post in peace? I can do that.
You put it best when you said it really just comes down to opinion vs opinion. I hate arguing with people, especially when I know it doesn't get anybody anywhere except frustrated. Also, as you were saying, you found all the answers you wanted that sounded best for YOUR argument, and posted them. The internet is full of lies, and full of any argument you want to make, from any perspective.
There's nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree, and that's obviously what we have to do. I just don't appreciate you trying to drag me through the mud. I was very respectful to you in my post, and made no accusations against you. My full focus was on the video, and the remarks you made calling everyone who disagrees with homosexual acceptance "bashers". Furthermore, I didn't go around and collect a bunch of personally destructive remarks about you from all my friends and priests. Why you did this to me? I don't know, maybe you just don't care about my friendship, or maybe it made you feel better about yourself to try and cut me down as much as possible. That's fine, if it made you feel better, I can take that. I have thick skin most of the time. You probably didn't say "I know Josh from high school, and I've read a lot of his blogs, and he's a really good guy and has always treated me with respect."
And Jeff, I'm sad to see you have given up your salvation. You used to be one of the strongest Christians I knew.
I must say this series of blogs and comments is very disturbing. I am so disappointed. My best friend from New Orleans is gay and he is the most loving, honest and caring man that I know. I truly believe that he would never choose to be gay. He has had to face so many challenges and so much HATE in his life that I know he would never have chosen this for his life! I see all of these comments and it truly makes me sad. This world is filled with such one sided thoughts.
Josh, I know where you are coming from. I have had the same beliefs as you. I have been exposed to a different outlook and my thoughts have changed. My love for you over the years has not changed and I have always treasured our friendship. BUT, I must say that your arguements seem a little biased. Despite Dawn's response, I would have said the same thing. Remember that it is not our place to judge here on earth. It is not our place to judge parades, olympics or lifestyles. God will judge each person at the entrance of heaven. Meanwhile, it is our responsibilty to be tolerant. It is also our job to remember if you have nothing nice to say, then don'd say anything at all. It is a basic principle.
I have thought long and hard before responding b/c I really didn't want to piss anyone off. But I felt obligated to say "Hey! Chill out!" The video was wrong. Plain and simple. Living in america is about freedom! Being in this country means that I can become Catholic and you can preach on a street corner! It also means that those who wish can be gay! It is not our place to say: Shame, Shame, your are disgusting!
The people that you know that are gay....I would really like to see their response to hearing you say that you love them, while in the same breath saying that they have an agenda and their actions are "disgusting."
I am really trying to be respectful of all parties here, but we need to remember that the world is not just filled with gay people. It is filled with people full of hate and intolerance. It makes me sad. I hope that I didn't put our friendship on the chopping block, but I just had to put my feelings down.
I will not win the argument with the religious card. It has been very difficult for me to tell Nathan that I don't agree with him being gay. It has been a challenge for me for 14 years! But, I know in my heart that he is a wonderful man who is going through his own termoil in his life. He doesn't need to hear my doubts and angst. So, our friendship goes on. Because I don't judge him in the slightest. AND if he wanted to march in a Gay Rights parade, I would be standing on the side lines cheering him on! He deserves freedom, just as much as we do!
Okay, so that is the end of my soap box. I think we need to be praying for the country...that it will be rid of the intolerance and filled with peace!
This is my last post, regardless of what else is said, or how much your friends want to pick on me, even if they did agree with me at one time.
Jess, I won't hold it against you that you find it impossible to love someone even if you disagree with something they do. I don't think you thought that through too well. If you found out I was a thief, but I felt that there was nothing wrong with it, are you going to tell me that you wouldn't love me anymore? Just because you disagree with me on 1 issue? That's the way I see homosexuality. Believe it or not, I don't really care. I'm just sick of people telling me how I feel.
I believe there are many reasons people choose to be gay. Many times it's because they were abused as a child. MANY times. Some people have chosen it because it's the "in" thing to do right now. Just for the mere fact that it's against the norm! Others are born a little more feminine than masculine or vice versa, or attracted to the same sex! There are also kids who are born that like to take things that don't belong to them, and lie, and be mean to other kids, or disrespectful to their parents. Anybody who's had kids, or grown up with a baby around knows this. It's not always something they learn from their parents, we're born with some of those things en grained in us. So does that mean that every tendency we're born with, we should accept as "that's just them!" Nope. You teach children right from wrong, and sometimes it takes years for a kid to get that anger out of them, or that disrespect. But it's an issue. That's why we have morals, and the Bible to help guide us. If you're like Jeff, and believe there is no God, and we are all just here magically, all you really have to worry about is "the man-made law", then there is no argument! A life of bliss! But if you believe in God, and in the Bible like I do, there ARE standards that better our way of living, etc etc. This country was founded on the bible's principles for a reason. So therefore, I believe there is ALWAYS a choice. I choose to like classic rock music. I can't stand country. But if I really opened my mind up to it, and made myself like it, I would eventually. Eat your carrots!
In the end, it mostly comes down to opinion. If you just accept that people were "born gay", and don't look at why or how they got there, fine, that's your choice. I personally just believe everybody has a choice. We choose who we are in every aspect of our lives. If you don't think that you have complete control of YOUR life, then who does control it?
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